Liar Liar Your Bums On Fire

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scam-artistYesterday at 10.36 I received an email from Clickbank saying a customer who had purchased my Mastering Public Speaking course wanted a refund.

The reason: “I was not satisfied with the product. Product did not meet expectations.”

That’s fine – the course doesn’t suit everyone and you expect a small percentage of returns.

The thing is, I had not received an email from Aweber telling me someone had confirmed their purchase.

To use Aweber and comply with anti-spamming laws when someone signs up to receive emails, they have to confirm first. After confirming, Aweber sends them the email with details on how to download the product.

All makes sense?


I thought it a bit strange that the buyer of the course had asked for a refund and not confirmed. How could they say, “I was not satisfied with the product. Product did not meet expectations”, when they hadn’t even downloaded the product?

Fifty-six minutes later, I received the Aweber email saying the buyer had confirmed. They now had access to the product.

Some of you might be thinking, “Well, it’s the timing of things. Aweber may have been slow in sending me the emails”.

That could be true. But the product is pretty vast with hours of audios and takes a while to download…let alone go through and listen to…then make your mind up and think, “It’s not for me”.

So I have made the assumption the buyer is conning me. He has the product, I have no money…that’s the on-line game for you.

So if you get someone called Foli from Germany ordering something from you…expect to be asked for a refund.


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29 Responses to Liar Liar Your Bums On Fire

  1. John Soares October 11, 2010 at 2:09 pm #

    Andrew, that sucks. And the evidence is quite clear that he just wanted to get your product for free.

    I’ve only had a few refunds for my information products, but nothing that matches this. And Clickbank has that near-automatic refund policy, so unscrupulous people know they can abuse it.

    • Andrew October 12, 2010 at 8:52 am #


      It’s just one of the downsides of making and selling information products on-line, isn’t it.

      My refund rates are low as well but I find it hard to accept that someone would do this.


  2. Patricia October 11, 2010 at 2:15 pm #

    How awful is that??!! I guess that is always the risk when you sell through Clickbank. Great for access but there will always be those that abuse the system. BTW very catchy title lol
    Patricia Perth Australia

    • Andrew October 12, 2010 at 8:54 am #


      When selling on-line, you have to provide a guarantee – there is nothing wrong with that.

      Some sales pages are just too hyped up…when you get the product it doesn’t do what you expect and yes…you want a refund.

      But to ask for a refund before you have even seen the product let alone used it…that’s bad!


  3. zaki October 12, 2010 at 7:38 am #

    I think is another way to get rich from internet, email to all of the products creator and asking refund. LOL

    Here this one of story that I will learn it…thank you for share it


    • Andrew October 12, 2010 at 8:55 am #


      And what would you do with the products to get rich?


      • Zaki October 12, 2010 at 11:42 am #

        good question…I won’t sell it again, of course…might be I will donate it…*euugghh looks like stupid Robin Hood. Just kidding :p

        But really, your analyze is really good. I can use it in my own blog someday if someone claim for refund


  4. Daniel Rose October 12, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    That’s low.
    If there’s one thing that really gets on my nerves, it’s people who try to prevent somebody from getting equitable compensation for their work.
    I guess it’s something everybody has to factor in, a little like shoplifting, but it’s still low.

    • Andrew October 12, 2010 at 2:37 pm #


      Yes, I suppose it is like shoplifting…perhaps I should call the internet police!


  5. LoneWolf October 13, 2010 at 3:15 am #

    I think this is one of the biggest drawbacks to electronic products — now you know how RIAA feels 8=) Seriously though, I think that this is part of the landscape as Daniel pointed out.

    Another thing to consider, based on the timing of it all, is that they balked because they didn’t get immediate access and didn’t recognize that the AWeber confirmation was for the product. Highly unlikely though.

    When you consider that you are not losing any actual capital expense as you would be with a physical product, the loss isn’t as serious as shoplifting.

    Most of the “guru” lit that I’ve read on the subject says that you should just take the refund requests in stride and don’t sweat it. This has never happened to me (although I’ve not yet made a sale — fingers crossed) so I don’t know what it feels like, but I can’t imagine it feels very good.

    • Andrew October 13, 2010 at 6:49 pm #


      I expect some refunds – that’s not a problem.

      It’s the way this person went about getting a refund.


      • LoneWolf October 13, 2010 at 8:34 pm #

        It is frustrating when people do that. You think that they’d give you a chance before hitting the refund button.

        I’ve started using a “Free” offer to build my mailing list. It seems about 10% unsubscribe after the download.

        At least I’ve got links back to my site in the download so that they may end up back for more. The frustrating thing is that I’ve worked hard to make the newsletter valuable and if the download is interesting to someone then they’d probably benefit from the newsletter too.

        • Andrew October 14, 2010 at 12:54 pm #


          When it comes to the free downloads – I can accept people unsubscribe.

          Far too many people download the free stuff from all over the place and then do nothing with it!


  6. abogados October 12, 2010 at 10:49 pm #

    One solution is the deferred payment after a trial period, the trouble is that there are people who abuse and once provided the service or used the thing does not want to pay.

    • Andrew October 13, 2010 at 6:47 pm #

      I’m not sure that would work.


  7. Carolee October 13, 2010 at 12:38 am #

    The stuff people will try to make a buck………

    • Andrew October 13, 2010 at 6:47 pm #

      …or not spend a buck!


  8. Randy October 13, 2010 at 6:36 am #

    Hi Andrew

    That really “bits” that there are people that will do these things. This is something that I’ve been worried about. As you know I’ve been working on the content for a monthly membership. I heard that Clickbank has a 60 day refund policy. Is that correct? If people ask for a refund just before the 60 days, they got half of my course. Can you do 30 days with Clickbank?


    • Andrew October 13, 2010 at 6:50 pm #


      The vast majority of people are honest – you just have to accept some people aren’t and will ask for a refund.

      CB’s refund rule is 60 days.


  9. TrafficColeman October 13, 2010 at 2:40 pm #

    Andrew welcome to the crowd my friend, this has been happen to me for years with my own product on clickbank..people buy an then ask for an refund..Clickbank has to come up with another game plan to stop this crap..

    “TrafficColeman “Signing Off”

    • Andrew October 13, 2010 at 6:52 pm #

      It’s getting the balance. As I’ve said above – I expect to get a few ‘returns’ and that isn’t a problem. It’s just the way this guy took the…well you know!


  10. Richard October 14, 2010 at 12:39 am #

    Hi Andrew,
    Sorry to hear about your bad experience. It’s too bad that there are people out there who will try and cheat you like that. Luckily it’s only a small minority. We just have to keep in mind that it’s only a very few people who are dishonest like that and treat our potential customers like they are honest. Otherwise this entire business will turn into a lot of second guessing our customers.

    • Andrew October 14, 2010 at 1:00 pm #


      That’s an excellent point you make:

      “We just have to keep in mind that it’s only a very few people who are dishonest like that and treat our potential customers like they are honest.”

      As most customers are!


  11. Phillip Dews October 13, 2010 at 8:46 pm #

    Hey Andrew, Phillip Here,

    First off thanks for commenting on my post on the comluv site. Glad you enjoyed it! I love this post title and had to check it out!

    Anyway someting simailar happed to a fellow IMer called Ben Hulme when someone was paying for his product using stolen credit cards!

    Why oh why do people have to do this! it’s the small minority of people like this that give Internet Marketing a bad name.

    I work for a company called DHL and have told some of my workmates what else I do to make money and a lot of them have labeled me a conner and a spammer due to the fact of the stigma attached to our trade!

    It’s a well known fact that anyone can make money online using tried and tested processes. I think it’s all down to education and nipping in the bud the stigma attached to Internet Marketing and blasting this small minority of spammers, conners, liars and thieves out of the water.

    Great post Andrew.

    • Andrew October 14, 2010 at 12:58 pm #

      Hi Philip,

      Thanks for coming across.

      Let’s hope we don;t get labaleed as bad as Estate Agents!


      P.S. I know a few guys (I used to work with) who work for DHL – in the IT area.

  12. Felicia October 14, 2010 at 5:25 am #

    *Sigh* The things some people do just to get by..
    Thank you for sharing this, Andrew.

  13. Alan Mater October 14, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    Man, that sucks. I hate dishonest people, and this is an all-time low from everything I’ve heard about. There have been times where I bought a product and feel that it didn’t deliver, and I never even asked for a refund. It’s just against my nature I guess. Unfortunately you will always have people like this. Thankfully they’re the minority.

    • Andrew October 15, 2010 at 1:56 pm #


      I have asked for a refund on rare occasions…but that is after using the product / service for a while first.


  14. Chelsea Roberts November 17, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    Damn it, that sucks. I always hate scams and spammers. Anyway I became impressed to read well worth reading. Hope it’s very useful and capable to conscious people about these unlikely people. thanks for letting us know Andrew. πŸ™‚

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